ATI ‘cheating’ benchmarks and degrading game quality, says NVIDIA

By Justin Robinson
16:08 Sep 15, 2010 | 35 Comments
Tags: ATI | AMD | NVIDIA | FP16 | Demotion | FP10 | FP24 | FP32 | image | quality | comparison | Far | Cry | Oblivion | DoW | II | Dawn | War | Need | Speed | Shift | NFS | GTS450 | 5770
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ATI ‘cheating’ benchmarks and degrading game quality, says NVIDIA

Atomic investigates NVIDIA’s long-ignored accusation: Is ATI using FP16 demotion to artificially inflate benchmark scores?

The graphics processing world is ever-turbulent. Arguments appear cyclical in nature from both ATI and NVIDIA, and bickering over issues like physics engines isn't uncommon - bringing about phrases like: 'They've been cheating with their so-and-so', or 'We offer the better solution without a drawback like theirs!' from both sides.

It's all part and parcel of competition. However, when Atomic received the recent NVIDIA GTS450 card, press release and included reviewer's guide, we noticed that it came with a page that implied certain unfavourable things about their competition, ATI.

We discovered that this page had been included in every reviewer's guide sent to hardware reviewers since the launch of the GF100 'Fermi' family: the GTX480, GTX470, GTX465, and both GTX460 cards. It had been included with the GTS450 and five other cards, but it seems no-one has paid it much attention, dismissing it offhandedly - as we admittedly dismiss most guides that attempt to dictate our testing methodology.

This page, as it appears below, claims many things. Prime among these is an assertion that ATI were utilising a technique in their drivers called 'FP16 Demotion' to boost their graphical performance at the cost of image quality. It names a number of older gaming titles as the only ones affected by this so-called hack, and welcomes reviewers to work it out for themselves. So, that's what we did.

NVIDIA GTS450 Reviewer's Guide

Important note if you are testing the following applications:

  • Dawn of War 2
  • Empire Total War
  • Need for Speed: Shift
  • Oblivion
  • Serious Sam II
  • Far Cry 1

AMD has admitted that performance optimizations in their driver alters image quality in the above applications. The specific change involves demoting FP16 render targets to R11G11B10 render targets which are half the size and less accurate. The image quality change is subtle, but it alters the workload for benchmarking purposes. The correct way to benchmark these applications is to disable Catalyst AI in AMD's control panel. Please contact your local AMD PR representative if you have any doubts on the above issue.
NVIDIA's official driver optimization's policy is to never introduce a performance optimization via .exe detection that alters the application's image quality, however subtle the difference. This is also the policy of FutureMark regarding legitimate driver optimizations.

NOTE: If you wish to test with Need for Speed: Shift or Dawn of War 2, we have enabled support for FP16 demotion - similar to AMD - in R260 drivers for these games. By default, FP16 demotion is off, but it can be toggled on/off with the AMDDemotionHack_OFF.exe and AMDDemotionHack_ON.exe files which can be found on the Press FTP.
For apples-to-apples comparisons with our hardware versus AMD, we ask that you run the AMDDemotionHack_ON.exe when performing your graphics testing with these games. In our own internal testing, speedups of up to 12% can be seen with our hardware with FP16 demotion enabled.

Now, there wouldn't be much point in purely showing performance results without explaining exactly what NVIDIA has accused ATI of: FP16 Demotion. We take a look on the very next page.

 
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35 Comments
Tezlin
Sep 15, 2010 5:10 PM
"We also can't help but wonder why NVIDIA attempted to make such an issue over this rendering technique; one that they wholeheartedly support and simultaneously condemn."


Because no one else would have gone as in-depth as this, or deemed it necessary to Google whether it was true or not. The know-nothings would just take it at face value, and that is enough to lose sales for AMD.
GeekyTalon
Sep 15, 2010 5:20 PM
Nividia and AMD are like the worst angry married couple on earth not divorcing because of their children(the consumers).
xBomx
Sep 15, 2010 5:46 PM
you would have to feel sorry for nvidea, shares are down and so it seems as this is a tactical scheme to improve sales.

the news are out thanks to Atomic but hey, who cares about what the losers think we already have a winner.
AMD AKIMBO
Sep 15, 2010 6:32 PM
does anyone ramember how much of a fuss was made over nvidia using physx ? all the ati fanbois said your benchmark doesnt count cos your using physx!!!
good on them if they can get better frames as long as quality isnt dropped and hey its been around for 5 years!
my question is why do futuremark allow their drivers to be used if they detect .exe's ?
nobody813
Sep 15, 2010 9:46 PM
"Due to what FP16 demotion does, we ask to disable this function to get true, apples-to-apples comparisons."

Ahem. It should read "Due to what PhysX does in 3DMark Vantage, we ask to disable this function to get true, apples-to-apples comparisons."

Hmmm, much better :P

I think this is stupid, everyone does (Intel with there compiler, Nvidia with PhysX... It's nothing new
omega
Sep 16, 2010 11:07 AM
Any comparison between products should be done using the same rules by all products.

If your testing the speed difference between 2 cars on on a certain race track and car1 uses a shortcut that car2 doesnt (even if it can it doesnt because it believes it is wrong to do so) you would not be able to say that car1 is faster (or slower) as they didnt use the same rules.

While running games like Oblivion, or NFS: Shift are not really used for Benchmarking (well not in reviews that I have read recently) it still indicates that ATI are tweaking their product - breaking the rules of the race.

Nvidia has stated that there is a performance boost from using FP16 Demotion, but at a quality decrease which is why they dont use it.

That being said these companies act like political parties. When they do it its ok, but when the other does it its DOOOOM.
ocre
Sep 16, 2010 1:36 PM
"shares are down and so it seems as this is a tactical scheme to improve sales."

nvidia stock has been on the rise, and it has nothing to do with this. Nvidia sent this to ppl who where to review their cards. Remember in the article it clearly stated it was sent to "reviewers", those are people who review cards. Not really a pr stunt but they intended to sway reviewers to disabling ati's FP16 Demotion for a more "apples to apples" comparison. On the grounds of unethical concerns, according to nvidia it isnt their policy to automatically tweak functions at the expense of image quality when a certain .exe game is opened.

Now I really dont care either way but it is something that should be considered. but since it is ati and they are the "winners" we should just not care.......wrong.

This article does a good service of making nvidia sound bad when they took a statement intended for reviewers purpose (a reviewers guide) and made public. It completely was misleading and skims on what is important:
The ati video driver is scanning the .exe programs running on your system and actually automatically implements fp16 demotion, sacrificing quality for a boost in performance. It even goes on to suggest that amd's doing this actually helped a game tested run smoother and more enjoyable vs the much more choppy option of turning off the demotion. Truth be known, this article test was running a slower mainstream model but the fp16 demotion is applied automatically no matter how powerful the card is. Now that should concern ppl who buy the most expensive systems and have their driver automatically cut out image quality when they have plenty of power and payed mega for the best image quality available.
Now with the testing of only 4 titles out of six brings up another flag. we seen a major reduction in certain circumstances in one game of 4 (25%) and the others looked as if the game was loaded and all the shots where from the same scene or not very far from the start.
Regardless of how much the games sacrifices quality just from this skimpy article we should conclude the pure fact is that the driver is automatically reducing image quality when it see certain .exe's are loaded and this can boost up nearly 20% in fps. Of course i can see why nvidia would want to make reviewers aware of such things.
In all actuality i think everyone should be aware of this. Where do we draw the line, if you think this is not a problem then your setting up a situation that is unthinkable, a terrible world. Just let the video drivers reduce quality so that a given company can win in the fps benchmarks and then everyone will benefit. Or is it just only okay for these games ati does this on, just this special circumstance?
Well currently ati is the only one benefiting by making their card shine with nearly 20% improvements in certain games at the cost of reducing the quality automatically when the .exe is found to be running!
SceptreCore
Sep 16, 2010 1:49 PM
I think your perspective omega is slightly naive. nVidia are hypocritical, and huge whingers. See Jen-Hsun. At first they say that they support FP16 Demotion... but then they don't!? (Because the competition is getting better gains through it.)

I looked at the FarCry and Oblivion screenshots... and I honestly couldn't tell the difference. Except that I think in Oblivion screenshot 4 the FP16 Demotion enabled shot looks slightly better.

Not that nVidia aren't partial to driver optimization when it suits them though. Like the example of 3DMark Vantage. And when it comes to .exe optimization. It's built into their control panel... where users can customize graphics settings to a game or benchmark. What's stopping a reviewer in their pocket from using that function? What about games they cooperate with for graphics optimizing... like Mafia 2... is that unfair?

I've noticed.. and suspected for some time of nVidia FPS fixing in their drivers. Can it be coincidence that my old machine can 'optimally' max out at exactly 60.1fps constant in some games, and no more? Weird hey!

Make no mistake. nVidia are just worried because they know that their new architecture that's just filled out the market range, will soon be obsolete.
mark84
Sep 16, 2010 1:57 PM
Nice write up. Disabling Catalyst AI however with my HD5970 also disables the internal crossfire, so it's either possibly slightly dodgy graphics in the odd game or half the performance I should be getting. lol.

I think AI will stay on for me.
sirtrancealot
Sep 16, 2010 3:57 PM
can anyone say PhysX??? pretty sure nvidia was guilty of benchmark fixing long before AMD released any of the 58xx series.. Either way.. AMD cards are running cooler, quieter and cheaper than the nVidia equiv's.. so yeh..
xBomx
Sep 16, 2010 4:35 PM
its pretty bad as it is, but consequently there wont be any competition when the 6800 series comes out.

apples to apples that is :P

Aktavite
Sep 16, 2010 4:49 PM
Of course NVIDIA have never cheated on benchmarks....
ocre
Sep 16, 2010 4:51 PM
@ SceptreCore
What? Is the propaganda completely made you blind. Or is it because you are such a fanboy. I guess its ignorant for me to even address your comment when it starts out sayin:
"nvidia are hypocritical, huge whingers."
I guess u personally know all of them and this is what makes you claim my statement naive.
Or am i naive because you know Jen-Hsun personally?
Well if you do you will also know that he is one of the lowest paid corporate execs. His salary is one dollar a yr. But you also should know that he chose this salary when nvidia was on top of the gpu world and making a killing. He decided he really didnt need to be any richer, he was plenty wealthy and gave up his salary. What a terrible person he is, huh. google it!!

back to your propaganda post, nvidia doesnt support the automatic implementation of fp16 demotion as you are putting it, your wrong, naive or plain out lying. They have commented on the image quality but have never implemented it into an automatic function per .exe because they noticed it did effect image quality in certain titles. But its hard to argue with a person who will twist facts and half truths to make others appear bad.
Now here i am defending nvidia and it may make me look like i am a biased but make no mistake,this isnt the case.
If you claim the 3dmark ventage was wrong for nvidia then how the heck can u support the fp16 demotion from AMD?
Its absolute wrong, can you see that? or is it because nvidia (all of them) are hypocrites so its acceptable?

Then you say something about a frame cap??? maybe it was v-sync, maybe???? did you have it turned on, either way does that make nvidia terrible?

and last mafia2 graphics optimizing by the evil nvidia???? Are you referring to physx? if you are then you really seriously have things backwards. If ati was to help developers in any way to make games better then whats the problem. If ati was to develop a technology like eye infinity and you had to buy an ati card to run it, whats the problem? If nvidia was to develope a physx and you had to buy a nvidia card to play it, whats the problem?

I get called naive by someone who is completely biased and one sided. Is it really that hard to forget emotion and the propaganda and actually see that there is good and bad on both sides of any fence. Ati isnt all good, nvidia isnt the devil. Let me tell everyone its a much better world when you can stand above and not just eat what your fed. When u can think on your own.

These forums and post over the internet have got so mindless with rants and ravings of such nonsense its unbelievable. I really am beginning to wonder if half of these places are full of ppl who work for one corp or another just plain smearing each other.

if you dont like Jen-Hsun then thats enough reason to not buy nvidia, but to make everything they do horrible and praise ati for intentionally reducing image quality on games to boost fps is just overboard. This is a tatic that should be avoided. please wipe ati out of your eyes and heart, drop nvidia out of your decided idea, and re read my first post.
you have to draw a line somewhere and we cant have companies reducing quality to improve fps just to look good on benchmarks. Be it nvidia or ati.

Tell me you cannot agree with that statement, or is your ever devoted loyalty prevent you from rational independent thought?
Sherman
Sep 16, 2010 5:02 PM
I remember when I used to get caught up in fanboi wars over video cards lol.

Nvidia and AMD/ATI are both corporations. They will BOTH play whatever dirty tricks they can to get an edge over the other. No-one has the moral high ground, so it's pretty dumb to favor one company over another.

When you want to upgrade, look for the best card for your needs that you can find and buy it, regardless of company. I have an Nvidia at the moment, but if ATI makes the better card when I want to upgrade next, I will switch.
nobody813
Sep 16, 2010 5:31 PM
If it was forcing it in today's benchmarks, then there would be a valid argument. But older games... Who cares??? I also know that there are options for Nvidia cards to do the same, but I don't see anyone saying that

Nvidia is just being a whiny bunch of... The day I see PhysX disabled in Vantage is when I will start listening to anything they have to say. Nvidia are just sore losers, trying to claw back some pride by kicking AMD in the nads, playing dirty and crapping on about any little thing they find (even when they do it) because they can't do it by providing us great cards on time (GTX 460 is great, but is too little too late)

Go tell someone who cares Nvidia
nobody813
Sep 16, 2010 5:33 PM
Everyone does it. Full stop. I don't see why this is a problem...
SceptreCore
Sep 16, 2010 6:12 PM
Sorry ocre. I didn't know you were Jen-Hsun. As I understand. The R11G11B10 Format is part of the DirectX API written by Microsoft. So anyone can use it. Even nVidia. The standard (and blame if any) lies with Microsoft.

I wasn't absolving AMD from any wrong doing at all. Just they haven't been mischievous in this case. As has been proved in this article... which even you fail to see. With the newer titles... Dawn Of War, and NFS Shift... there is no image quality reduction, only a performance. And if nVidia choose not to seek such performance gain... even after praising it... then that's their prerogative. nVidia optimise drivers for certain games. It says so in every new driver they make. Don't tell me there is no .exe detection.. coz that'd be bullshit.

I wasn't attacking you before... I was merely stating how you've failed in your interpretation of the facts. But I can see how after your second post, that your childish outburst is the result of your fanboi pride being dented. I used to only love nVidia once... only to see how stupid that was.
xBomx
Sep 16, 2010 6:46 PM
those were the days when you can use nvidea as a hybrid for physx with ati as main gpu, gone were those days.

however their reputation as childish wingers and greedy arrogant hogs have exceeded the capitalist pigs scale.
Sebbs
Sep 17, 2010 12:31 AM
so, ATI has been doing these optimisations for 5 years, only affects some DX9 games, and nVidia (of all companies) is only complaining about it now?
Besides, don't review sites mainly benchmark DX10/11 games these days? If the optimisations were for improving their benchmark scores, then not only has the ship sailed, but it just completed its return journey. Sorry nVidia, but this really comes off as a weak attempt to undermine the competition
Meowkitty
Sep 17, 2010 9:17 AM
So at the end of the day, the testing method itself is flawed. 2 companies use 2 methods to render images, and we test for FPS.
using the race track analogy, we are monitory the corner speed of each car and commenting on cornering styles but really not quantifying the overall lap time.

either way, Nvidia come across as sounding pissy.

Will this article get Atomic to re-evaluate it's testing methods? will we see a shift from outright Hz to a rating of picture quality at 60hz (or best frame rate)

xBomx
Sep 17, 2010 11:12 PM
/\ yeah, too bad for nvidea that this isn't Bathurst, more likely games nowadays are more of say Monte Carlo/Monaco.

ocre
Sep 18, 2010 1:40 PM
Is this so hard to understand:

Game developers made the game a certain way and amd is reducing the image quality to make their card shine better, PERIOD!!!!

Except for ATI and their Demotion, current driver optimization does not and should not include reducing image quality to increase fps.

I am a fanboy? okay, if you say so. But regardless i think ati cards will still do fine if they cut out the fp16 demotion. I also think that the hd6000 series is gonna let AMD shine bright over nvidia this holiday season. I am actually impressed with ATI in their HD series. It was some much needed force from them and they should be applauded by everyone for such a great accomplishment. I think we should share some common ground with a few of those statements. BUT.......

How can you think this is acceptable? I dont get it? Is Everyone posting on this site so blinded with fanboyism they cant possibly be rational? Can you not see from the middle?

Game developers made the game a certain way and amd is reducing the image quality to make their card shine better, PERIOD!!!!

Developers do use this fp16 demotion when they see fit. Like when the consoles are struggling and the demotion is just enough to make the game smoother. Really some cases you dont see any reduction of quality at all, but not all. you dont understand that these games are developed by developers and this demotion was not included by them, yet ati applies this shortcut which can and does reduce image quality. This article hardly does anything but smear nvidia and make it seem to be a pointless statement. But you see this wasnt a statement intended for any public ploy but for reviewers as this shortcut does give up to 17% advantage in fps to ati cards while reducing image quality. It wasnt intended for the public and i can only wonder why this article does nvidia such a disservice when the facts are clear.

I do not care who "wins" or who loses. I do not love nvidia, i think they need a lot of work to shape up in the gpu field. I think its wrong when intel secretly used their compilers to give an advantage over amd.
And it is just as wrong for AMD to sneak in an image reducing trick to up fps, even if it is older games.

I am probably speaking to the deaf and blind but i do say this and i dont hate ati/amd or think they are terrible. It is something that merely shouldnt be automatic in their drivers and i hate to see this kinda support when:

Game developers made the game a certain way and amd is reducing the image quality to make their card shine better, PERIOD!!!!

Besides my HD5850 can run any of those games without the demotion and its a sad world when their are ppl out their who support crap like this just because they think their is some kinda war goin on. I cant believe that ppl can so easily loose site of the most simple things. Their is no war, its propaganda. Support doesnt mean you have to blindly support. There is no war for me.

I mean common, can we actually see through our flags? I own ati but because i dont agree with everthing they do i am an nvidia fanboy? Think with your brains, re read my posts. Think.....
xBomx
Sep 18, 2010 4:58 PM
dude u should be a spokesman, any how though im sure that any dork here dont really care about it, generally this is just a political stunt from one party, and just the least of it.

with enough hype i guess it can and does divide boarders between the Atomic community but we can always battle it out in a game of FPS or SSF4.

economical war is between AMD and nVidea, thats their war not ours.

In the end of the day we are one big happy family and its what makes us Atomicans :P
SceptreCore
Sep 18, 2010 8:23 PM
I don't understand it. The facts are right there. There is no visible image quality loss... only a performance increase. nVidia themselves approve of, but if ATI use it for a game optimization... THEN it's wrong!?! I wonder in what does nVidia support it? Perhaps it's how they have been achieving their percentage increases with every driver release. Or what other optimisations they're using to increase performance? How do they achieve these results in only the latest titles? But you wouldn't care then would you? Because it's not AMD doing it.

The fact is... there is no trick. It's a DX format deemed acceptable by both vendors. And nVidia is trying to use it as an underhanded way of taking the focus off their own limited graphics architecture soon to be made superfluous by the 6000 series.

By the way... you can turn it off... even if you're still playing those old titles.
AMD AKIMBO
Sep 19, 2010 8:58 AM
if you turn it off you loose xfire capabilities.
there was only one game that you could see a difference and an old one @ that who cares.
im a nv fanboi but i couldnt care less about what tricks either party use as long as i cant see a difference.
i think it was a sneaky way of nv telling reviewers about this to make it look like they didnt take a swipe at amd themselves but hey let them fight it just means we the consumer keep getting better cards/drivers.
ocre
Sep 19, 2010 5:14 PM
SceptreCore the facts are right there....and it DOES show clearly a reduction in image quality. Did you not see the water on the rocks? it looked like an 8bit nintendo line etching out the cliff from the water.
While reading this, understand my intentions is not to insult so dont take it personal (explanation later).
So with your post?????
What are you talking about? Your just inventing scenarios with nvidia drivers which takes this to a level thats beyond anyone but your own imagination. You clearly have a dislike for nvidia, but can you not stuff this predisposition against them and face the true fact. Out of the handful of games tested: 4
and 1 out of those 4 had a serious issues- as well as a significant boost in fps.

I have an hd5850, i do not want this happening from my driver and it is a path that i dont like for ati/amd to take. One of the reasons i like ati is the crisp images they provided, I dont see why anyone thinks this is okay?

Now back to my reasons even posting here. The war i stated isnt one with anyone here but the mindless rants all over the net bidding one company over the other. I am old school and i love all things PC. I love to see the industry improve and the technology grow, I and a tech geek down to the fundamental functioning level of components. I want to see the best out of these companies and lately things seem to have gotten idiotic with mindless raving/hating blind clans. I want to see the best from ati/amd and this obviously isnt a good thing to parade in the streets over.
But then we see post like:
"did someone say ati? hurray, they win, nvidia sux they desirve it, they goin out on business, nvidia is loser cry babies....." etc!!!
Mindless rants and this is not something to think highly of. I want the best out of ati and as long as they have blind support you will see things quickly turn for the worse. ATI has no incentive and their popular advantage can fade fast.

You asked why nvidia can have percentage increases in their driver releases when we should ask where is our increase? where is the ati answer to physx they claimed was coming. I cant sit around mad at nvidia for pushing a technology thats free for their customers, this is what drivers the pc into new territories. Eye infinity from ati, 3d vision all these things are in their infancy and this is exciting to me to see the steps forward. I cant play 3d obviously but you know its still new and not mature but with this heavily backed movement with the television push, you can bet everyone may soon get on board. That would be something else, an ati 3d vision, but if things keep going in that direction ati/amd will have no choice. How is this bad? its exciting to me. This is what i hope to see, not degrading quality in petty fps gains.

the DX format statement you spoke of is pointless. The games where developed and released and the fp16 demotion wasnt used or intended by them. This image altering is decided and implemented via driver .exe detection by ati later on down the line.

Now to why nvidia can have so many performance increases without image altering per .exe in these games we see so often:
The way nvidia and ati GPUs work is actually very different. The reason i went with ati is because their simplest, straightforward design which allows their low power draw and high performance. ATI cards have a much higher stream processor count, much much higher. This is because ati has decided this simple processor design and it is working very well for them. Nvidia on the other hand works with complex shaders and units. Its totally different and nvidia can program their drivers to send the data through all kinds of different paths. They have much more to work with and really its all about compiling and we can always expect nvidia to find better ways to get the data through their gpus per each individual game ba
Meowkitty
Sep 20, 2010 8:33 AM
I think it's time to re read the article.

of the games listed by Nvidia, 1 of the 4 was effected.
while idealy we should have seen all the title and 4 is a small sample set we can still extrapolate. leadign us to...

the conclusion "We also can't help but wonder why NVIDIA attempted to make such an issue over this rendering technique; one that they wholeheartedly support and simultaneously condemn. In the two titles that their hack functioned with we saw no image quality nor performance loss, and rather the opposite: a performance boost. Why haven't NVIDIA included support for FP16 Demotion in their drivers until now for specific titles? Why choose now to kick up a fuss?"

It can be hard not to make direct attacks on the motivations of your opponent, but really, unless ATI are doing the same in their note to the reviewers, Nvidia come off looking desperate to look better. which says more about how confident they are in their product than anything else.
SceptreCore
Sep 20, 2010 3:34 PM
Exactly
AMD AKIMBO
Sep 20, 2010 6:09 PM
i would rather drivers increase quality even if it drops fps all my games run on 60fps all the time anyway, if your system slows too much drop detail just give us the option for more.
really ati dont need more fps there cards have more than enough grunt so i dont see why they would impliment this instead of fixing bugs and making their drivers better!
i could understand using this for consoles but it really has no use for the current gen of cards.
maybe they should make this a seperate option that can be enabled/disabled in their drivers that would shut nv up.
a question for the guys reading this who here goes into their driver control panel and turns everything to performance instead of quality..... no one!!
xBomx
Sep 20, 2010 9:08 PM
come to think of it, some time back not so long ago i remembered playing dungeon siege 2 with the 9700pro card, update after update i started to notice increase in speed with the loss of image quality with all settings on low just so to make the game playable, however in a way ATi are doing their consumer a loyalty service rather then having to spend on new cards every six month or so.

Another game i noticed on the HD 3850 after a few update's was COD4, the blur on gun aim was no longer blurry but then again u could tweak cod 4 with a direct x 7 card and get 150 FPS if u had the know how.

Thing is though we don't always have the right tools to tweak the terminal of the game unless it is compiled that way e.g cod4, but the good thing is though catalyst control panel is almost just as good, well unless u have a 5870 @ crossfire then u wouldn't have to worry about anything.
nobody813
Sep 27, 2010 7:03 PM
I think this should put this one to bed:

Atomic Issue 55 - Page 45
Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX Review
"All texture and filtering 'optimisations' were disabled, except for Depth Stencil Texture under 3DMark05, as the difference between the two is subjective, yet an obvious speed increase is inherent with it on. Nvidia is happy to reduce the quality of its shadows and we're not gonn=ing to stop it, and as such this is something a prospective buyer should be aware of, as the performance does drop quite significantly with DST turned off."

Hmmm, optimisations in benchmarks

*face palm*

I think that's put that one to bed :P

Regards
Nobody813
Athlonite
Oct 7, 2010 11:39 AM
How many of you above can honestly say that you see these optimizations whilst your busy playing the game or do you spend your entire time wandering round a game world looking at shadows and textures whilst getting you head blown off.... Maybe nVidiot should shut mouth and do a better job of creating a Graphics card with all the grunt of their 480 but with the power usage of an ATI 5850 otherwise who gives two flying F@$ks
FireFlyphillips
Oct 21, 2010 2:03 AM
people in the world are starving donate the funds from this bs to a world charity rather than fogging up my eyes with he said she said blah blah fools we wont be fooled
o 2 posts in one nite wow must get my 480 out to cuddle when i sleep (hotter than a hot water bottle )
wayke
Nov 25, 2010 12:21 AM
Who remembers Nvidias Driver hacks for benchmarking utils which NVIDIA GOT IN BIG TROUBLE FOR or Nvidias GPu blocks Cracking and GPUS falling from boards due to poorly designed thermal devices the investors like DELL HP COMPAQ etc huge list all class actioned NVIDIA for that but general public customers could never sue them even if the middle man was using reference boards Nvidia are Dirty Scum and use such evil tactics to get their way or throw a tanty and blame INTEL AMD Their Partner there Bad were the drivers that made almost all games unplayable with transparent textures the screen would get that PINK squares used as the color for transparency that took ages to fix people were stuck on bugged drivers

NVIDIA the unflogged child of Graphics
wayke
Nov 25, 2010 12:35 AM
I switched to a 4870x2 when they were released and was able to play every game that failed on that 8*** junk thing SLI SL LIE Memory leaks the crashes NVIDIA Cant MAKE HARDWARE Why do they try that first Geforce card so long ago had to stick extra fans on it to keep it cool POS.
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Antec's Lanboy Air - our new favourite case
90%
This product overall is awesome.
 
MSI's GT780 laptop as fast as it gets
90%
Nice laptop