Friday May 25, 2012 5:09 AM AEST

How many ways can a games journalist get it wrong?

By David Hollingworth
09:54 May 26, 2011 | 41 Comments
Tags: dean | takahashi | space | marine | gears | of | war | warhammer | fps | gaming | journalism | news
How many ways can a games journalist get it wrong?

Game writer Dean Takahashi thinks THQ is ripping off Gears of War in its upcoming shooter, Space Marine... he can't be more wrong.

It's not often we take such umbrage at the work of another writer that we feel we have to deliver our own retort. It's kind of poor form to pick at a colleague in that way, but sometimes... you just gotta throw down. We discovered Dean Takahashi's recent ignorant rant claiming that THQ's Space Marine is a blatant and dumb rip-off of Gears of War and the nerd-rage set in almost instantly.

Nerd. RAGE.

First up, though, I should be honest here. A lot of the Atomic community know this, but it bears repeating - I'm a huge fan of the Warhammer 40,000 (from which Space Marine comes) universe. I read the novels, spend far more than is healthy on tiny plastic man-dollies, and even cosplay the damn thing. Since the first edition of Rogue Trader: Warhammer 40,000 was released in 1987, I've been drinking the Kool-Aid.

Hell, I even wrote my own history of the setting and its influence on gaming, which could make good reading right about now.

The writers of the game were honest in their sources of inspiration - they drew on works as diverse as The Lord of the Rings to Heinlein's classic Starship Troopers. It was an unabashed homage to everything they loved, an exercise in pastiche that nonetheless has launched one of the richest and most complex examples of world-building outside of Tolkien's Middle Earth.

And yet, Takahashi reduces the work of decades worth of writers, sculptors and designers to this:

The grunts in Gears of War are derivatives of the U.S. Marine Corps soldiers, re-imagined in a sci-fi universe. So THQ’s game is really just copying Microsoft’s Gears of War game (made by Epic Games), which is copying something out of the history of marines.

What is that - I don't even...

Well, actually, scratch that - I do. Forget for a moment the touch sycophancy about the Marine Corps, let's focus on the real evolution here. Warhammer's Space Marines draw a lineage that goes back to Frank Herbert's Sardaukar in Dune and Heinlein's Mobile Infantry in Starship Troopers (the book, not the film!). Hardened super-soldiers trained to an elite status in the art of war - it's a classic trope that predates not only Warhammer itself, but also Gears of War.

And that's the start of what is either an epic example of internet trolling, or an even better example of ignorant fanboism.

Start with the over-sized armor and bodybuilder physiques of the marines. When you aim a gun in Space Marine, the target reticle is huge, just like the target reticle in Gears of War.

OMG muscles! Only Gears of War has muscles! OMG! I'm really hoping that Takahashi hates body builders, too, for so blatantly ripping off the 'roiders in Gears. As to the similarities in reticle... that just boggles the mind. There are only so many ways you can make an expanding targeting reticle in a game, Dean, chill.

The guns are huge and they feature a chainsaw blade that can be used to slice enemies in half, execution style, similar to the “chainsaw bayonet” of the Gears soldiers.

The guns have been huge, and with chainblades, since at least 1988. Chain weapons are an established part of the setting, and, to be honest, most people have always thought Gears was copying 40k. Just sayin'.

And then there's this, on the Ork enemies you fight in Space Marine:

Of course, their very name does bear resemblance to the “orcs” in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings, but we’ll ignore that for now.

You'll ignore that, Dean? How nice of you! Will you also ignore that 40k's Orks are in fact derived from the Orcs in Warhammer Fantasy (which predates 40k, though was written by many of the same people), which itself was inspired by Dungeons and Dragons, which itself took Orcs from Tolkien. Any number of fantasy authors, game writers and developers have used Orcs - they're the badguy that keeps on giving!

It really does seem that the Xbox-loving (Takahashi's authored two books on the console), Microsoft-pandering Takahashi has a real hate-on for THQ, Space Marine, and the so-called 'copy-catting' developers who've so blatantly stolen from his beloved Gears of War. And you know what - that's okay. Taking sides is a part of the gaming landscape, and after writing our own pro-Space Marine screed we'd be hypocritical to deny Takahashi the right to pass on his own views.

But we ask that even the most incandescently glowing of fans get their facts right.

 
 
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41 Comments
z0d14cm45t3r
May 26, 2011 11:12 AM
With the the way games are now and how people claim simularities between games. its just stupid to say one game is copying the other.
example:
would you say that call of duty is copying doom? they both have guns they are both fps and they both die.

their is only so many ways you can make a game before there is a simulairties between them.
TinBane
May 26, 2011 11:12 AM
World'ss greatest troll, or world's greatest moron.
YOU DECIDE!
Ekythump
May 26, 2011 11:12 AM
Someone didn't do their homework.
thesorehead
May 26, 2011 11:15 AM
"most people have always thought Gears was copying 40k"
Indeed. When I first saw Gears of War I was liek "cool, a chainsword combi-weapon"

Third-person action is just a good way to play as a Space Marine. So long as they avoid the chest-high-walls trope - Power Armour gives a better save than most cover anyway, so you may as well stand up and shoot!
Ekythump
May 26, 2011 11:21 AM
I followed the link to the article...man to the fans have a mad-on for him or what.
Hawkeye
May 26, 2011 11:23 AM
Favourite comment: "Is this a spec piece for The Onion?"
Ekythump
May 26, 2011 11:31 AM
I find it interesting that some don't think it was a real article.
Hawkeye
May 26, 2011 11:36 AM
It almost can't be - the level of willful ignorance is staggering.
Ekythump
May 26, 2011 11:40 AM
Doesn't anyone proof read on those sites? Part of me is amazed it even got put up its so blatantly inaccurate.
philo-sofa
May 26, 2011 11:46 AM
Assuming it is real, the guy is a mix of funny, and a sad depeiction of how little seriousness some people can have with regards to journalistic integrity.

Utter, utter failboat lol. Still, he is getting ripped a complete set of new orifices...
slash22000
May 26, 2011 1:11 PM
How do you live in Nerd World and not know about Space Marines? More accurately, how do you become Nerd Promoted so many times you are writing articles on Nerd World and not know about Space Marines? It's like not knowing that gravity exists.
orcone
May 26, 2011 1:15 PM
Sounds like the author of that other article is going to be happy with the increased pageviews he gets from this.

Well played, sir.
philo-sofa
May 26, 2011 1:37 PM
^^ you do have to wonder eh. I'd personally be too embarrased to deliberately write that myself. And lol at the 'op-ed for Onion' thing; sums it up perfectly.
Bundy 2.0
May 26, 2011 1:39 PM
If i was at 'GamesBeat' I would be concerned that their cited "Lead writer for games" doesn't know anything about Warhammer, probably one of the top 3 most well established gaming IP's.
He is either trolling big time, or he shouldnt be a games journalist.
GhostFaceKilla
May 26, 2011 1:46 PM

There there David. Everything will be alright.
Physt
May 26, 2011 1:47 PM
I was very impressed by your restraint David. You left the caps-lock disengaged and everything!
Ihsan
May 26, 2011 2:09 PM
40k ripped off Starcraft...
Bundy 2.0
May 26, 2011 2:19 PM
Hope you aren't serious Ishan.
We could go into the history of Blizzard trying to acquire the Warhammer IP back in the day and failed, their next game was the original Warcraft.
Hawkeye
May 26, 2011 2:43 PM
Actually, Mike Morhaime says that's a myth, Bundy :)
Bundy 2.0
May 26, 2011 2:55 PM
Well he would wouldn't he?
I can't find anything official on that info TBH, assume it is false. The similarities are too close, to be coincidence that Blizzard go and make 2 separate IP's that mirror existing IP's, even down to depictions of tyranid and zerg, it must be said that in the very least Blizzard were inspired by GW's IP's the question is When does inspired by become ripped off?
Hawkeye
May 26, 2011 3:01 PM
I think it's rough to say it's ripped off. If you take that attitude, then GW's work itself is ripping stuff off.

I think these are big enough ideas that Starcraft and 40k can happily exist side-by-side. And really, when you get down to it, the similarities are very superficial. Space Marines - or Adeptus Astartes, to be accurate - are vastly different to the marines of Starcraft in terms of their character and origins. Even Tyranids and Zerg, while both buggy, have some big differences.
Bundy 2.0
May 26, 2011 3:22 PM
I am out of my depth debating Warhammer with you, I do agree there is room for both, I enjoy numerous games from both IP series.
Miller86
May 26, 2011 3:28 PM
Everything is inspired by something else, no matter how far back you go.

40k comes from fantasy, most post-war fantasy is Tolkienesque, Tolkien is based on Nordic fables amongst other things, those fables would be based on a story someone had told the person who wrote it down, who would have heard it from their father, who heard it from their great grandfather, who heard it as a child as a story based on something that actually happened and decided to exaggerate it when he told it to his grandchildren... and it snowballed to the year 2011 where some douchebag thought Epic and Microsoft had actually created something new.

Or its a piss take.
Bundy 2.0
May 26, 2011 3:39 PM
If it's a piss take its his first piss take article that i can find reading back on this guys past articles.
http://twitter.com/#!/deantak
I must say it doesn't help that IGN advertise this game as "Warhammer meets Gears of War" on their youtube preview video and their website.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvymPlPaXDE
Hawkeye
May 26, 2011 4:10 PM
Sorry, Bundy, didn't mean to nerd alpha-strike you :P
Ekythump
May 26, 2011 4:31 PM
yes you did ;)
Hawkeye
May 26, 2011 4:39 PM
No! I bet he got that same glazed over look that my mates get whenever I bash on about this, too :(
Bundy 2.0
May 26, 2011 5:14 PM
haha I actually appreciate it when the staff of a gaming[computing] mag understand gaming history, unlike the focus of the article!
W3r3Wu1F
May 27, 2011 6:44 AM
Firstly - Takahashi is a retard, and should ever be allowed to communicate EVER again.

Secondly - I tabletoped WH40k(about 15 years ago) have all of DoW, all of SC, and i have GoW1(is there a GoW2?), i have the Starship Troopers PC game, all of Doom, quake and Ureal (about 300+ PC games, all brought, about $15000 at $50 each...), love them all.

Thirdly - WH40K is a fusion of many concept sources, that created a unique world, many of the concept sources that WH40K use were admitted to, Some were their own, and hence you cannot claim that they "ripped-off" any one inspired yes(there is a world of difference).

Fourthly - The WH40K vs SC debate, the similarities are actually many and varied(mostly cosmetic), i did research on this years ago, dont have that document anymore, HDD failure, but i can point you to a fairly overview of the subject matter = http://au.gamespot.com/users/subyman/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-25848490

"Blizzard and the Warhammer Fiasco.
-----------------------------------

Blizzard started its life in 1991 with just a handful of employees and a different name. It completed a few projects before reorganizing under the name of Chaos Studios (Chaos and Warhammer go hand in hand...) They realized the name was already taken and switched to Blizzard Entertainment. Their first game as a new developer was the smash hit Warcraft: Orks and Humans, but we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Originally, Blizzard contacted Games Workshop to make a Warhammer real time strategy game. GW supposedly gave them the go ahead and Blizzard began to make the game. Somewhere between half way to eighty percent of the way done with the game, GW pulled the license from Blizzard. Blizzard had a game almost completed without a name! They decided to rename the game, characters, and adjust the story to their own IP which they called Warcraft. This is not speculation, but the real deal. It is not that Blizzard happened to come up with similar characters, they just changed the names in their first game!"

Fifthly - Quoting Tolkien as a Prime source, is quiet flawed, he's great work is not original either, it's a fusion of myths, legends and stories, that he woven into he's epic "original" story(JJRT's LotR, is not just based on Norse mythology,it's also based on Britonian and anglo-saxon etc.)

Sixthly - Remembering that we are debating WH40k vs SC, Video games, not works of fiction(Books), and or movies, yes it does seem that say the :marines of both WH40K and SC are based on Starship troopers;Starship Troopers is a military science fiction novel by Robert A. Heinlein, first published (in abridged form) as a serial in The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction (October, November 1959, as "Starship Soldier") and published hardcover in December, 1959.

In 1976, Avalon Hill published Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers, a map-and-counter board wargame featuring a number of scenarios as written in the novel

In 1997, as a tie-in with Verhoeven's film adaptation, they published Starship Troopers: Prepare For Battle! which entirely focused on the film.

Film and television

The 1986 James Cameron film Aliens incorporated themes and phrases from the novel, such as the terms "the drop" and "bug hunt", as well as the cargo-loader exoskeleton. The actors playing the Colonial Marines were also required to read Starship Troopers as part of their preparation prior to filming.[52]

The film rights to the novel were licensed in the 1990s; The first film, also titled Starship Troopers, was directed by Paul Verhoeven (RoboCop, Total Recall) and released in 1997. The film diverged greatly in terms of the themes and plot of the novel, and received mixed reviews from critics.[54] A sequel followed in 2004, titled Starship Troopers 2: Hero of the Federation, and another in 2008, Starship Troope
hectorbustnuts
May 27, 2011 9:53 AM

Anyone else see this arse-monkey's reply to the gargantuan pile of criticism?

---------------------------------------

I appreciate all of the comments here. I've expressed a strong opinion here and I'll stand by it. I hoped to defuse the reaction a little with a sense of humor and by acknowledging the flaws in my own argument. Critics have to take the same stuff that they dish out. You're all entitled to your opinion.

I actually appreciate people who pay close attention to the whole post. I'm the first one to point out that Warhammer's canon pre-dates Gears of War. But you have to acknowledge that the outstanding third-person shooter game play of Gears of War predates any similar outstanding Warhammer 40k video game. So forgive me if I am cynical about the executive decisions here. Video game company A makes a big hit game. Executives at company B say, "we want some of that and we've got the franchise to do it." So they commission a similar game in a different universe. I'd expect this is the kind of thinking that led EA to create an "original" game like Dante's Inferno, which felt an awful lot like God of War.

Now the proof will be in the actual game play, where I expect the Gears-Space Marine comparison will become more obvious. I've seen that game play in a live demo. Now let's see who wants to step forward and say that Space Marine is the most original game they've seen in a long time.

---------------------------------------

Bonehead.
Hawkeye
May 27, 2011 10:20 AM
Wow, it's like he thinks Gears is the most outstanding piece of individual creation EVER MADE.

Not to mention his incredible moving of the goalposts with that 'most original game' line.
neX
May 27, 2011 1:31 PM
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/4/10/
alex8337
May 27, 2011 3:40 PM
The idiot that wrote that article needs to be sacked
Hawkeye
May 27, 2011 4:10 PM
I wholly concur with that comic, and empathise. Yes.
Ekythump
May 27, 2011 4:23 PM
Is it just me or did he dig his hole deeper?
W3r3Wu1F
May 27, 2011 5:32 PM
whoa, sorry a third of my post was lost(i didn't check) it was like 4am, what is the word count 1000 words?
W3r3Wu1F
May 27, 2011 6:22 PM
Hmmm arse-monkey?(who?), what an intellectual way to start a statement, well it certainly is a statement of intellect...

Anyway, GoW reminded me more of UT2004(the armour that is,the chainsaw on the assault rifle was reminiscent of the chainsword, but definitely unique, more of a chain-saw bayonet)

I don't think GoW armour is Power Armour (though i have really checked, it has lighting...)
hectorbustnuts
May 27, 2011 6:37 PM

The arse-monkey in question was Dean Takahashi, as I immediately after posted the reply of his to which I referred in the same sentence.
King_Of_The_Mountain
May 28, 2011 7:10 PM
NERD RAGE
King_Of_The_Mountain
May 28, 2011 7:14 PM
It's like Starcraft 2 and Dawn of war all over again, god

The tears
vestige
May 30, 2011 11:38 AM
Hur Dur the epic poem Beowulf clearly ripped off Harry Potter hur dur.
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